Artificial Intelligence for WordPress

Hey listener, before we get started, if you’d like to support WordPress community member Andrey Savchenko or anyone else currently in the Ukraine, please donate here or here. (read his original tweet

I can comfortably admit that I didn’t see Artificial Intelligence as the next big thing for WordPress in 2022.

The march to Gutenberg and FSE adoption across the product landscape is sure to reveal new opportunities to be introduced to our favorite low-code software. AI, however, wasn’t even close to what I was expecting to be the next big thing for us.

Brought to you by Malcare

Visit Malcare. It’s the most comprehensive way to protect your high-performance WordPress website. Security, backup, staging sites and more. Get started for free. is an all-new solution for helping users craft a near infinite amount of text for your WordPress website. From H1’s to entire blog posts, what Vito Peleg and Andrew Palmer are creating with this tool is quite impressive.

Let’s get the elephant (yes, the real one) out of the room first, shall we? Bertha isn’t leading us to copywriter extinction. Hearing from Andrew in today’s interview, Bertha should still be used as your writing assistant — not your writer. You can give the AI assistant the ideas, the direction, and what you want to focus on, but will still require some editing chops to refine it.

It’s still a darn good tool.

You can download Bertha for free from to try it yourself. Consider supporting the Matt Report before the robots take over at

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Matt: I think you said you maybe own a little interest in a, in a pizza shop at one point. I think 

[00:00:04] Andrew: Yep. Yep. No, we started a pizza shop, my friend, Danny, and I started a pizza shop six years ago now. And I still have a little interest in it, but basically after about seven months when it paid everything back, I said, look, I need to concentrate on other stuff. And he said, yeah, that’s fine. And bought me out of my shareholding more or less, but, I still get free pizza and I still have to manage the point of sale system and stuff.

[00:00:29] So I’m still involved in the business, which is, which is great. But it’s a, it’s a nice distraction as well when you’re, when you’re involved in a bricks and mortar business and, meetings, ad hoc meetings or phone, I get a phone call from Danny and say, what do I do about this? It’s nice to feel a little bit involved and but I’m not in it now really.

[00:00:47] I still, I still own a bit of it, but not much, 

[00:00:49] Matt: I feel like the customer service from selling a $5 slice of pizza can scale infinitely to even a $5,000 website or a $50,000 project. There’s so much to know about the basics of customer service that happens in the pizza. Shop a sandwich, shop a bakery. That a lot of us in the software world just don’t get, because a lot of the software sales are just done behind the screen.

[00:01:15] It’s through email. Now it’s more zoom and maybe face to face, but still largely it’s social media interaction and just selling through text on a screen. There’s probably something to be said. I don’t know what there is to be said about selling a slice of pizza is like selling a $5,000 website, but I’m sure there’s like a thread of commonality in that 

[00:01:34] Andrew: well, actually quite you’re really on point there because pizza’s pretty much on demand. And especially through COVID, we had a. Very lucky escape as a pizza restaurant because we immediately transitioned from a 42 cover restaurant to just take away and collection and delivering through Deliveroo and Uber and all that kind of stuff.

[00:01:54] And also, now there’s a seven drivers of our own, so, that’s a, that’s an all-in cost. But pizza’s on demand and look at the web world, how much on demand it is. I want a website now, especially during the COVID period of, of, of the real lockdowns, we were doing websites on demand and we’re building them in a day.

[00:02:15] Just to get them out there and then obviously maintaining them and getting them there. Social media, Twitter, you’ve seen Twitter, the, the, the almost instantaneous response that people require, people telling people that they’re not doing things, so those people then have to act on that and then do a blog post to say that we are really trying to do things right.

[00:02:35] Over the last few weeks we’ve had a few spits and spats going on. But running a business is the same, whether it’s brick and mortar or not with brick and mortar, you have a lot of overhead. You have the heat, light power, especially a pizza place. You have the food supply issues. We’ve, we’ve had food supply issues in this country for a while.

[00:02:56] People have blamed it on Brexit. It’s not Brexit. It’s just that [00:03:00] there is a food supply issue. Flour is difficult to get over from Italy. Not because again, not because of Brexit because of the demand fruit, fruit, and veg potatoes. When it’s up, for instance, From, let’s say five bucks for 56 pound sack of potatoes.

[00:03:17] They went up to 15 bucks overnight. So it’s just the way. And then you’ve got to put that into margins. If you’re a fish and chip shop, or if you’re a restaurant you’re using fresh potatoes, do you really charge $5 for those chairs? Or for French fries as you guys call them or do you continue, charging $3 50 or three pounds 50?

[00:03:39] So you have to make those kinds of decisions. Wages have gone up because people are working longer hours, staffing shortages as well. So that’s, we’ve, we’re experiencing that in the web world. And one of the things that I’ve seen is hosting companies, buying plugin companies and, and other companies and effectively.

[00:04:01] Because they have the money they’re buying out the developers that we, that I want to use. And I can’t go to the hundred and 50 grand a year with the benefits and with the holidays and with everything in there. So you still have to, you have to run your business very, very carefully, very properly.

[00:04:22] Matt: I recently interviewed Brian Gardner and I kind of said that to him. Brian Garner build out, built out what was known as studio press eventually sells it to WP engine. Works there for a stint leaves, creates. Sells it back to WP engine and then gets a job or they didn’t maybe fell out of that order, but it’s still what I said was, Hey, this product game, I’m creating micro products.

[00:04:44] Not that frost is a micro product, but even today’s in today’s world, you could build a micro product. To, to get Aqua hired. Like almost it’s you’re, it’s almost like your resume to build a little product to show off what you can do and then sell that to get hired. Like it’s almost like people will, brands will buy that these days because it’s so hard to get somebody, even if you only have 500 customers. 

[00:05:08] Andrew: Well, that’s exactly what extended. If I did. We had a vendor on the elegant marketplace who became a very good friend of mine. Munia come out who built editor plus, which he’s celebrating today. He has off today, the 14th of whatever date you’re putting this out, but 7,000 downloads on

[00:05:25] And I introduced him to Chris Katz of extend defy. Chris ends up buying. Page editor plus, 

[00:05:33] . 

[00:05:33] whatever minerals money is doing. So that’s, that’s how this happens. People go out and they see, they see these developers doing great work and they say I want, I want him on my team, or I want his team on my team because many of how the team has got a team behind him, as well as I have I’m not looking to get bought again.

[00:05:53] Quite so soon, we’ve got, we’ve got, we’ve got WP plugins, which has got [00:06:00] 23 plugins for elements and Devi serving 200,000 people, we’ve got 200,000 active plugins out there. So, we, we’re quite busy just getting.

[00:06:12] Matt: What have you thought about going there? With adding to the portfolio of, and look, I, I, this is a preface to get into. I want to talk about like the competitive landscape of Gutenberg. I put out a video over the weekend about Gutenberg and how I think that it’s actually. A different future for page builders.

[00:06:30] And we can talk about that in a moment, but do you, have you felt like the need to, okay, man, It’s tough to hire somebody just straight salary. Maybe I have to go that route and knock on a small plug-in or product creator’s door and say, Hey, I’ll buy those 4,000 installs from you. And you joined the company as a senior developer or anything like that.

[00:06:48] Is that something, you’re actively exploring?

[00:06:50] Andrew: something, it’s something I do, but I do it during a different way. With SMM, Danny who lives in Pakistan, he approached me and said, look know I’m, I’m a. Building this thing out, but I need some finance behind it and I need to, I need to get it. So we’re basically a joint venture, both co-founders of it, and it’s good.

[00:07:07] And, so if people go to try dot Gutenberg,, you can see if you upload in elements, allow you can see the progress that we’re making. We were selling it. And then I decided not to sell it because it wasn’t, it. 99%. Perfect. And for me, it needs to be, to keep the support burden down, to, to keep the complaints down the, the, the user experience, as best as it can be.

[00:07:33] It needs to work as a plugin. But if you go to, you’ll see that it actually does work with most elements of layouts and things missing. But, if you’re, if they’re using third party plugins, we can’t. Be perfect, but we’ve got blocks bakery as well, which is on WP plugins

[00:07:51] And that’s a, that’s a good one. Blocks plugin that works with Guttenberg AI. So, when I’m looking to increase on that, but my focus really is on my agency, which is WP plugins and Bertha. That’s, that’s the real focus because my agency is. I’m like what 500 websites that we host, if we’re stuck for a bit of web design, we’ll just ring one of those guys up and say, look, we noted a couple of grand, we’ll redo your website and people can only have great.

[00:08:17] I can’t won’t do 

[00:08:17] . 

[00:08:17] Andrew: But I do, I get approached all the time by playing, your plugin developer, who a theme developer approached me the other day and said, how can we work together? And I said, after I finished with everything else that I’m doing, because. Too busy. Really? You’ve gotta be, you’ve gotta be focused on what you’re doing.

[00:08:32] If you’re not focused, you will, you’ll lose. You’ll lose traction more than anything else. 

[00:08:37] Matt: I, and I’ve been saying this for a while and it’s good to hear that people are knocking on your door. I’ve talked to other folks, the same thing is happening. We’re look, if you’re in this game, it’s, it’s easy. To sit behind your computer and say, man, I’m going to build this product. It’s going to change the world.

[00:08:53] Everyone will want it. I will just price it at $29 for the year and I will just, I’ll just sell a [00:09:00] whole bunch. And that’ll be the, the, the ticket to the promised land, sadly these days it’s going to be quite challenging to do that. And you know what there’s I look at now with, the, the products and the services that I’ve built. Sometimes you just have to be real with yourself, partner up with somebody and you don’t have to try to own the world with your, your one thing. And especially if it’s your. or two products that you’ve ever created. You know what, you’re going to learn a lot. If you try to partner up with somebody and even just get acquired by, by somebody to stay on the job and build it out because there’s so much to learn still.

[00:09:37] If you’re a young product owner. Unless you’re building this unicorn thing.

[00:09:41] if you’re a slow paced in the, in the WordPress space, I say partner up with somebody, partner up with an agency and marketer, somebody that offsets your, your skillset for short, because it’s a long road, 

[00:09:51] Andrew: Like I buy one, I, 100% agree. And I had my, my, my, one of my, one of my best friends, Sean Barton. Who’s a fantastic plugin developer. But he’s not a marketeer or a marketer, however you guys want to say, but it, with those, with the plugins that I own, I’ve, I’ve acquired them from him because he’s busy doing other stuff.

[00:10:13] So I said, look, I’ll, I’ll take him over. I’ve got the, I’ve got the platform. I’ve got the easy digital downloads license. I can, I can do everything on that. You’ll just start pay you out over time, whatever. And I did the same with page builder, cloud and lounge. And I sold my half to Melissa Love.

[00:10:29] Who’s who’s in partnership with Sean because she’s the marketer, he’s the developer and he’s an awesome developer. And I think that’s the way it should go because you need, you need somebody to do the marketing, you need somebody to care about the product. Whereas a developer will kind of think, it does this. Yeah. But why, why does it do that? What’s the, where’s the. What was the need was the desire for somebody to use this, so, okay. So, there’s a new plugin come out today. It lets you read the SQL queries in WordPress in in the actual dashboard. Why would you want to do that?

[00:11:05] I just don’t get it. You could just log into your hosting and view the SQL and do it, do a, do a query. Somebody wants to do it, but you know, I don’t really see why, then that opens up the dashboard to maybe another, if you get hacked, everyone can see your SQL.

[00:11:20] I don’t get it. But for useful plugins and now we’ve gotten both blocks coming in. Big time, cadence and block C and all these, these great people that are really working hard on that. What is the differentiator going to be? If you, okay, I’ve got a great block. Plugin Saguan is 750 out there already.

[00:11:41] You’ve got to make it so good these days. And also WordPress as WordPress. It doesn’t really let you market it. You can put it You can try and SEO the heck out of it. You can tell people it’s [00:12:00] on there, but you’re not really allowed to put any marketing speak in there or upsells or, or anything like that.

[00:12:06] And I think WordPress as WordPress, the repository kind of needs to revisit that for people, if automatic are allowed to make money and upsell. Austin us mere mortals need to be able to do that as well.

[00:12:22] Matt: I’ve seen other folks say it as Well, as, Hey, can we, at least if we’re not going to build a proper marketplace, and I know you have experience in marketplaces, if we’re not going to build a marketplace because it’s. For us to say yeah, dot org should just become a marketplace. But at that scale, I’m sure you’re laughing to yourself saying yeah.

[00:12:39] Good luck. It’s yeah, it’s a great idea, but it’s just not going to be a flip of a switch and then all of a sudden billions of dollars. Cause you know, I think there’s a billion dollars running A billion dollars is not going, it’s going to get processed overnight or have the staff or the search or the, the deliverables of.

[00:12:56] You know what like ThemeForest did, and this would be theme forest on steroids times 20 is 

[00:13:03] Andrew: also you, you would also have the marketplaces rebelling against you for doing that because it would immediately, elegant themes. The, the owners of Debbie started a marketplace. That’s a proper kick in the shins of people like Devi cake., elegant marketplace because we help them build up, but they saw the value of a marketplace and people are making fortunes on there.

[00:13:28] So I’m not too distressed because I don’t know elegant marketplace now. I kind of, the timing was right when I saw when I sold it. But, for a theme like Devi, 750,000 live installs to actually have a built-in marketplace was a kind of a kick in the teeth to the people that help them grow that business to 750,000.

[00:13:49] I’ve said this to Nick personally, in frame, I met him, met up with him in I kind of re rephrase that. I said, do you want to kiss me foot before you kicked me in the nuts? So it’s kind of just, it’s just a, a kind of a thing, but fair place for them. It’s a massive success.

[00:14:05] And it’s making a lot of people and lots of money, which is great, but the same kind of criticism might go through to What I want to see is. For What are, why they prefer to see is the ability to actually say or highlight the fact that the pro version is so much better and you would be supporting the developer rather than that donate button that you can put on, which is great.

[00:14:35] People can donate, but make people realize that WordPress is a comer. Opportunity for people. I did a talk years ago at Bristol meets about if you’re a developer, a coder, don’t be afraid of page builders, use them to be able to monetize your other skills. So build out your website really quickly with beaver builder, DV elements or [00:15:00] whatever was around at the time.

[00:15:02] But then. Make your difference by being that code or that can build out a website really quickly and then build in the functionality and really needs to allow people to build in the licensing properly into the PR the plugins Freemiums have kind of got around that by, by, I don’t know how they’ve got round it.

[00:15:23] I talked to Overby went Teleo, he’s got round it. I kind of sussed it, but but we we’re allowed to. Upsells into the plugin itself, but I don’t like them appearing on the dashboard. I’m I’m against, I’m kind of on the fence with this I’m against plugins promoting in the actual dashboard, but I’m, I’m for plugins promoting in their own dashboard.

[00:15:43] So for instance, Bertha has its own dashboard and it tells you upgrade if you want to, if you run out of words, upgrade, and I think that’s, that’s completely fine, 

[00:15:53] Matt: I was thinking the other day that, well, maybe page building. Like right now, we say what’s the best WordPress page builders or building a WordPress page. Builder is very difficult because there’s a lot of competition. I started to think, well, gee, Matt, the other Matt, the other day in the state of the word said that Gutenberg is bigger than WordPress. So I started thinking, well, maybe the issue is for page builders specifically.

[00:16:16] Where you’re trying to build your page builder solution inside of word. And oh, by the way, full site editing just got released. So layout changes and customizing templates is going to be happening by core. That was largely a value add for page builders, maybe page builders just have to be called page builders now, and immediately go the route of self hosted SAS solution, because that’s what they’re all aiming for.

[00:16:40] Anyway, as an eventual outcome And then just adopt Gutenberg as your open source tooling to make the job easier. Like they all pick WordPress because you’ve got the distribution, you’ve got the platform, you’ve got user logins and all that stuff, and everybody’s hosting their sites. Well, maybe page builders could leverage whatever fast technology they want to build the framework of a website.

[00:17:03] And then they just adopt Gutenberg as the editing experience for that way. Which kind of gives back to mats, future vision of Gutenberg being bigger than WordPress. Now we start to see in a future where the numbers get lopsided, where the internet has a bigger distribution of Gutenberg than there are of WordPress websites, big grenade tossed your way.

[00:17:27] What do you think about monetizing the future of page builders or just seeing Gutenberg extend itself beyond WordPress? 

[00:17:35] Andrew: I don’t know how good and Berg where we extend itself behind WordPress, because it’s it’s core to WordPress. So I, I’m not that technically adept to think about, think that questionnaire a bit of a drive by shooting. Thanks for that. But page builders, the beauty of page builders, when I discovered divvy, it was, it was a block.

[00:17:52] So they should have patented the thing called block, but Nick missed a trick on that. When I looked at BeaverBuilder and elemental, when it first [00:18:00] came out, I had a good old chat with Johnny and Ben, when they, when they first launched, we actually interviewed them on elegant marketplace. And I thought it was absolutely phenomenal because you can drag and drop and place and do columns and do nice, easy mobile first.

[00:18:15] Design, which is, I think we should all start and we haven’t gone. My developers are saying, so mobile first idiots, what’s going on? And oh yeah, because you can, you can build a great website on a desktop. It will look great. And then you, you throw it on a mobile. I know there’s 84 different devices out there, but you know, you still gotta think mobile first and it will look crap.

[00:18:35] And that’s the problem with, with WordPress Gutenberg, making it mobile friendly. Frankly a nightmare and they they haven’t thought about that. So the page builders had thoughts about that, that you can have, with Devi, you can have different views, they’ve got different techniques for unlearning for making your site pretty much word work.

[00:18:55] Mobile friendly Devi. Also, I seem to remember have a. Block or a DV module as they now call them for a good and boat block. So you can place Guttenberg within Devi. But if you go back to the fact that WordPress was originally my little and Matt Mullenweg designed it as a blogging platform or came from the blogging world.

[00:19:22] I think page builders should stay away from, from the, from the posts, right? Not CPT, not custom post types, but from posts. So allow people to blog using Guttenberg. Cause I think it’s a phenomenally fast way to, to blog out there. And keep the page builders for the theming and for the prettiness and for the motion and for the popups, elements as a, as a plugin couple of years ago, I think put popups into.

[00:19:53] The page builder, so that destroyed all the pop up market, pop up, plugins walk and an all, and we designed the DV, the sort of the elements are form plugging, which allows you to capture the data on actually within the website, lo and behold, six months later, it’s in core of elements, and that’s, that’s the risk you take as a, as a plugin developer.

[00:20:14] And that’s the risk. You’re going to take Matt as a good and bug block developer because. Matt might look at it one day and go, oh, we can do that. We can put a slider in. We can, we can put, multiple columns. We can do the mobile stuff, but the, for the, for divvy itself, elementary has done it. $89 a year.

[00:20:33] You get elements of pro and hosting. I haven’t, I’ve come, I’m going to spend $89 and do it, because I want to see what our hosting is like. Cause I use grid painter to manage all my hosting on different servers and stuff like that. And I love it, but I want to see what the speed is like and what the, what the actual experiences like DV.

[00:20:56] I think we’ll go that way. They offer hosting through SiteGround even [00:21:00] blue host and even HostGator. I think they recommend these people because if you’ve got a license, you can install it on anyone. Those hosts and they’ll installed divvy. And then all you do is you copy and paste your, your license. So it’s a one-click install.

[00:21:12] And a lot of the hosts have going that way. Look at CloudWave is doing the, the, the, they’ll install the visual connection. Onto it onto a thing with you. So I think that’s the way the market is going hosts and hosts to provide host type providers like grid pane, cloud ways run cloud.

[00:21:32] They will also install the theme of your choice. The page builder of your choice on the hosting. So I’m not sure the page builders are too worried about Gutenberg becoming the defacto, but they working towards putting it, making sure that they work together in, in, in sync, if you like, rather than making good and both come to the top, otherwise the differentiator isn’t there and good and bug you.

[00:21:58] Can’t dragon. As yet you can in the sidebar, but you can’t really manipulate it as you would a page builder

[00:22:07] Matt: I think he looks at Gutenberg as look, I can actually make this thing. Impact the internet versus WordPress, just impacting websites. Like he’s accomplished that with websites to a massive degree with this 40 last I checked was 43% for websites. And I think there’s a future where he sees Gutenberg just being, could possibly be the interface on an apple device.

[00:22:32] It could be the interface on a refrigerator that you’re typing or moving blocks around. I think that’s the kind of crazy vision he might have for 

[00:22:39] Andrew: well, I think you’re right, because it’s built on react and JavaScript, isn’t it. So, when, when I think it was one word camp, it was a US-based word camp. Probably the second one I went to could have been St. Louis or it could have been. Boston where, or, or one of them, a big one where he appeared.

[00:22:58] And I remember him standing up there and some that he doesn’t really shout, but he shouted out, literally shouted out, learn Java script. It’s important. So everyone remembers that. But it would be interesting. Now I’m thinking about it because I know I’ve just remembered how it was built. It could go into.

[00:23:18] Anything, could it go into Shopify? Could you have gotten both blocks in Shopify or Squarespace or Wix, even that would be amusing. So in Gutenberg, in weeks, when that.

[00:23:28] Matt: A hundred percent. All right. So instead of solving the world’s problems through page builders and visual design and, and your agency, you come up with this crazy idea to say, to create texts through artificial intelligence. How the heck did you land on this idea with 

[00:23:47] Andrew: Wasn’t my idea. I hate to digest really hate to say it’s just not my idea. Dammit. It was the animus. VSO Pele, who is a very [00:24:00] great friend of mine and my business partner. So we have no 

[00:24:04] Matt: Are you local to each other? Like 

[00:24:05] Andrew: we, we are now because I’ve, I’ve recently moved house, so we’re now An hour away with 30 minutes away from each other, but he, he doesn’t drive as me.

[00:24:13] That’s got to do all the traveling, cause he’s, he’s, he’s glued to his desk, man, he’s just had a baby throws, froze the lovely live out to, out to a childminder and just get glued to his desk all the time. Because, because of answer him and stuff like that, but he, he approached me because he’s obviously got after rim.

[00:24:30] That’s doing pretty well. And he wanted to have artificial intelligence on the notepads of matter in which is, which is basically a feedback tool. And then. I could make this bigger. So he he’d already done all the research with open AI. He’d already written a couple of prompts and and then decided that he was just his, his team of, I think he’s got nine now.

[00:24:52] We’re just too busy. So it came to me and just made me busier than I am. And I just said, yeah. Okay, I’ll do it. And I’ll finance it. And yeah, of course, I’ve got to 

[00:25:01] Matt: hold on. Why order this sack of 

[00:25:02] Andrew: Yeah, exactly. I’ll 

[00:25:03] Matt: and some lettuce and 

[00:25:05] Andrew: But it was an N it was, it was an instantaneous decision. He said, I got this, I got this nowhere.

[00:25:10] Okay. What is it going to cost? And he told me what was going to cost killed. That’s my holiday on the window for the next five years. But it basically my team. I had to learn open AI. I had to learn open. Now I had to learn how to write prompts. I’ve written out three of them and Vito’s written about 80 19, 80 5%.

[00:25:29] My guys have of studied intently and everything and how to get the information back. But because we build websites and we have built websites, there’s, I’ve built over 2000 websites in my career. So it’s been a, it’s been quite a long career. Bill 1500 or something, in a very short period of time.

[00:25:49] And we know that what people want is pretty similar. It’s a, it’s a header, it’s a footer, it’s the middle, it’s the blurbs, it’s the calls to action. It’s the, paths, it’s the ADA marketing frameworks that you want to use and it’s just generating texts quickly. So we built it out and we, so we started in may and.

[00:26:13] We launched in September and we’ve now got two and a half thousand users, which is great because we came up with a phrase. We have marketing meeting every Tuesday or dev meeting, straight marketing meeting every Tuesday. And I came up with the phrase that I want to be. I want Bertha to be the Grammarly of AI for WordPress.

[00:26:33] So we’re basically giving everything away for free apart from long form. And for a thousand words, For the time being, I just want people to see the power of it, but effectively, I’ve now built 12 websites with it since we launched it. And my clients are amazed at the fact that I can put content in there at the same time, without any kind of delay, because as we’re building out, we’re putting in the CTO, we’re putting in the call [00:27:00] to actions.

[00:27:00] We’re putting in the blurb information with this is from cryptocurrency as well, right through to. Florists catering restaurants. One of my niches is restaurants because I used to be a chef. I used to have a couple of restaurants as well, and obviously the pizza place helps. So I help restaurants market themselves as well on the web.

[00:27:19] So there is nothing that Bertha can’t write about. You still have to think of birth or is that person sitting next to you? That comes up with the idea. And frameworks for what you want to say, and you are the editor. So she’s the, she’s the journalist going out there saying, writing all this stuff, doing all the research, because all the research has been done.

[00:27:39] You, you put in one sentence or paragraph. Press a click and your, your blurbs done your paragraphs done. And with long form, you can literally write thousands of words in an hour, it’s it really and edit it and stuff like that. So that’s really quite intriguing. 

[00:27:56] One of our clients came up with the lower birther is the lorem ipsum killer. And to be able to kill lorem ipsum how many times, man, have you seen a Shona allowance or a customer, a website to a customer? And they said, why have you put Greek in there?

[00:28:13] And that you’ve gone actually is Latin, but it’s lorem ipsum 

[00:28:15] you can write a blog post about anything. One of our, one of our greatest decisions was to employ Imran Siddique, who is a, a great element of use and a great teacher on, on web web squadron on building websites out. And he did a review screaming about how good Bertha was, and it was really funny and it was lovely.

[00:28:36] So we asked him last month, literally last month, beginning of January. Is it February and earlier beginning of January. And he has done the 51 tutorial videos already because he absolutely adores the product. So we’ve got the learning academy there with, slowly, slowly teaching people how to do it.

[00:28:54] So it’s that’s what, that’s how it started. And that’s how it’s going to continue.

[00:28:58] Matt: So it’s just like one of those things where now you’re, you’re not just creating a block. I’m sure.

[00:29:05] you’ll have more competition in the future, but this is not something that is as easy for somebody to put together as like I’m going to do another pricing grid block, and I’m going to build that to compete with you.

[00:29:17] This is a space that you can really sink your teeth into. Of market leader specifically, as we all know who listening to this podcast specifically in the WordPress sector, because no one else is really doing it. Like you said, there’s a couple of other plugins that do it in a different way, but this is something that you can really start to recoup that holiday money back on it.

[00:29:35] I would 

[00:29:35] Andrew: Well, we got that too, to be honest, to be honest, birther is now paying for herself and she has paid me back. So all of my investment has been. Come back over the last couple of months, which is good. And now it’s a question of the money that’s coming in now go straight back into development. So we are developing something else, which I can, I can, I can tell you it’s we, we are building out a SAS version.

[00:29:59] It’s going to [00:30:00] be a while because. Sasha is hard. I don’t care what anybody says, and it takes a lot. It takes a lot of money and a lot of investment in time and efforts and learning. We want it to be as comfortable to use as anything that you would, you would use out that. Chrome extension is going to be coming out as well.

[00:30:19] Pretty much the same as S same time as the SAS, but also the WordPress plugin. And we’re celebrating this week particularly because we’re on the org, 

[00:30:27] Is great. So, you can install it straight, install birther straight from your WordPress dashboard. Now just search birther or AI. Even we come up as well under AI being on there for three days, we got 270 active.

[00:30:41] Matt: Nice. 

[00:30:42] Andrew: Downloads just on, just on that side, which is crazy. 

[00:30:45] Matt: Yeah. I was telling you the other day when we were chatting I had somebody, a friend of mine reached out and I kind of just help him with his website. He’s also my barber. So, I wanna make sure I get a good haircut. So I, I kind of help them with a site, but anyway, just like you eat dabbles in a bunch of different types of businesses and he, he owns.

[00:31:01] With a partner, a ice cream shop, which is obviously closed now, here in the Northeast, but he’s getting ready for the spring time and all of that stuff. And he’s Hey, I want to add this content to the site. Is that something you want to do? And I’m like, no, this is not something that I want to do. Like I’m not going to be writing pages about ice creams and events that people can hold and birthday parties and all this stuff.

[00:31:18] In fact, I don’t even know where to begin if I were to do something like that. But. With a plugin like this? Well, maybe I can kind of guide him to, to do it or even take it on myself and help him out a little bit without worrying about, okay. Blank canvas staring in front of me, ice cream tastes good.

[00:31:36] You should have a birthday party here. I could get something. I can get Bertha to prompt me with all of the, the, like the content. I just kind of feed her the topic ideas and enroll with it that way. 

[00:31:46] Andrew: Well, she can come up with a topic idea. So you can say, I want to talk about the history of gelato, for instance, how did gelato get started in, in New York started actually, I know it because it was started in New York city by a couple of Italian immigrants and it was actually ice. They were selling, they were just selling blocks of ice and then somebody decided to flavor it and then they decided to crush it up and mix it up and birth and those, all that kind of stuff.

[00:32:11] But that could be. In a, in an about us kind of page that can help you. You get a little bit of history and then you can go. So we decided to do our own version of gelato or whatever. It both helps you. With your mission statement, it helps you with your Pass frameworks, which is basically you’ve got forgotten what passive stands for.

[00:32:32] Now, let me just cause I’m, cause I’m excited to be on your blog, your podcast, but it’s basically, persuasive bullet points, product descriptions. So you can, you can put in a this gelato is made with strawberry and fresh strawberry and that there’s, there’s a, this in it and that any and everything, and both will actually come up with a recipe as well.

[00:32:50] You can, you can come up with anything. So. It’s so she is so clever and let the power of, of AI and the power of the prompts. [00:33:00] You’ve got to give some kudos to Vito here because. Dove deep into writing the prompts. And I’m not that way inclined as far as logic goes on quite an illogical guy, that’s why we built birth 

[00:33:14] Matt: in the right 

[00:33:14] Andrew: of just made it.

[00:33:15] Yeah, exactly. I just made a, I just made a choice. Yeah. Okay. We’ll do that. And it’s worked out and it’s working out for a lot of people. 

[00:33:20] Matt: I do want to. Poke and prod just one final question here. Because it is something that’s on my mind is what happens when all the robots take over what happens if you’re an agency owner? So many of us are, it might be listening to, and we do have a half, a dozen restaurant clients, 12 accountants a couple dozen lawyers and, and this. Crucial to maybe our copywriting service that we provide customers. Is there a way for lack of a better phrase to not have Bertha compete against itself or create the same content across the board? Or is that Hey, you have to make this decision. As the person who wields the power of Bertha 

[00:34:00] Andrew: Well, there is some of that going on as well, but you’ve got to think about how, how AI copywriting works and all the AI copywriting people out there. And I don’t mind saying who they are. Copy AI word, AI, Jarvis Jasper, or Jerry. You will probably be the next name of Jasper on the night. That they’re all doing a fantastic job and they’re all writing things in, or they were giving commands to birth or sorry to open AI in a different way or in some different ways, but effectively as a human being, I don’t know what I’m going to say in 10 seconds, time or three seconds time or a milliseconds time.

[00:34:35] I really don’t. I know. Well, I know what I’m going to say, but I don’t know how I’m going to structure it. And AI works in exactly the same way. It doesn’t work word by word or paragraph by paragraph or sentence by sentence. It works letter by letter. So it basically creates, so it’s T what am I going to say there?

[00:34:55] And then looks at the context and it’ll go there. This VAT, the restaurant is in. Whatever serves Mediterranean style food, but in a different, so it will do it in a different way. So it’s pretty, I would say it’s plagiarism free. You can have plagiarism checkers on it, but it’s the, every test that I’ve done and I’ve done over a thousand tests.

[00:35:22] On all of them, not just birth and I’ve tested for plagiarism. I’ve used premium plagiarism checkers as well. They have all been 100% plagiarism. Because that’s the way I, AI works. It works the same as our brain in as much as forming a sentence, forming a paragraph, forming a story. So I have no real concerns about Latin.

[00:35:46] In fact, there is, as of today I read there’s a really great character out there that knows so much about AI. I called Matthew wrens. And he’s He’s a lovely chap and had a cocktail cup cup of cocktails with [00:36:00] him in London a couple of few months ago. And he just posted a thing that there is an AI now building AI.

[00:36:09] So it’s examining all of the, all of what the AI is doing and, and, and basically making all these neurons, these new neurons. So I think AI will power us in so many different ways other than copywriting. And I don’t think. Copywriters need to worry if you’re a copywriter. And I know a few, and I know a few that rebelled against me and said, what the hell are you doing?

[00:36:31] You’re putting me out of a job. And I said, well, actually, I’m not. Because if you use AI to write your copy, we’ll be back. And also you’ll be able to pat it out in a better way. I spoke with a very good journalist friend of mine who writes for crypto now, most people know that open AI stopped scraping the web in 2019, and it’s only scraped 10% of the web.

[00:36:57] We know how big the web is, it still knows about crypto. And I’m still, I built a crypto website the other day for a client in four hours. And wrote the copy. All of it. They didn’t change it, not one word. I didn’t know. I don’t know about, I, I do know a little bit about it, so, but I don’t know the technicalities of it.

[00:37:16] So the short answer to your question is don’t worry about it because there are things that make, if a lawyer talks about his law practice or her law practice. They will talk about their law practice in a different way. And that’s exactly what birther will do. 

[00:37:34] Matt: Andrew Palmer Hey, you’re leading us to the promised land or to extinction with I’ll let the consumer decide. Check out is the fastest way to create content for your WordPress website. You can try it for free. By searching for, I assume, and And you can give it a go for free start checking out what birth it can do for you anywhere else you want to point folks to

[00:37:59] Andrew: Well, I wouldn’t mind, Debbie, Debbie users can go to WP plugins and we still sell our plugins obviously on Navigant because I still support those guys. They, they, they acquired me and hopefully it will continue the success that I had with it. And go to go buy our plugins on elegant or WP and have a chat with me on Twitter at Arnie Palmer.

[00:38:23] Matt: Matt to join the mailing list. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you in the next episode.


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