How to readjust when you’re sick of the same old thing

In this episode, Matt Medeiros is winding down Season 7 by interviewing Kim Doyal, who is “formally” known as the WordPress Chick.  Kim has been obsessed with content since closing out all the service work in her previous business. She is presenting the Content Creator Summit the first full week of March and has a closed Content Creators Facebook group that people have been quickly joining. She and Matt discuss the move to SaaS and how that was a “happy accident” that allows her personality to show in her new business endeavor.

Listen to this episode:


What you will learn from this Episode:

  • WordPress has been a great space for people to begin to build their business. (3:10)
  • Business owners and the market space have matured with WordPress. The space is consistently moving forward with new products and tools. (5:39)
  • You have to bring more than a statement that I can build your website. You should be able to offer more to keep the business growing and act as a strategic partner to people. (7:30)
  • A freelancer can make the agreement to get ongoing business by offering to partner with a client for a three-month engagement working for free. (9:23)
  • At the end of a three-month engagement, you will know how to measure and what to charge once you see the Return on Investment (ROI) from a working case study. (11:09)
  • As you are working with a client in any arrangement you are building your own content for future clients. (13:12)
  • Getting the “right free customer” is the key to success. (14:02)

Journey to a SaasS:

  • Kim had a knack for finding the tools that people need and sharing the knowledge. (15:27)
  • The business partner for Lead Surveys, Gordan Orlic was discovered on Kim’s podcast. A strong friendship was started and they initially began to investigate building a plugin. (16:13)
  • The pricing for the WordPress ecosystem was frustrating. There is also the struggle around people that do not want to pay much or can afford the plugin. (17:01)
  • Kim and Gordan wanted a product with Lead Surveys that is visually appealing and user-friendly. (19:48)
  • Lead Surveys was the perfect product to set up as a SaaS and the business is the perfect match for content marketing and development. (21:03)
  • SaaS was the way to go for this standalone product to get out of the Envato structure. (23:36)

Lead Surveys:

  • You can personalize a new product to the client and connect with audiences in different conferences and networks. (25:42)
  • Lead Surveys is a long game effort. There will be a podcast, client visits and all levels of opportunity to engage the community. (26:45)
  • You need to keep investing in yourself that will provide a “true” income. (29:35)
  • The best thing that Kim did for the building of Lead Surveys was to go back to the fundamentals and participate in high ticket Master Mind groups. (30:31)
  • Growing and scaling the business came from the skills gained from Master Mind participation. The business needs to be aligned with how you feel. (32:26)

Content Creator Facebook Group:

  • The Content Creators Facebook has been growing quickly and creating an active community. (34:22)
  • Relationships take time to foster. (35:48)
  • Time is given to the group and building the community is what is working personally for Kim. (37:12)
  • “Value Deposits” are being posted daily in the facebook group. People are giving to help other people and not monetize a product. (38:22)

Membership Sites:

  • There are a lot of people who do not understand memberships. You need to own your property and brand. (42:36)
  • Many businesses are doing successful membership sites but it may have taken a decade to get the member list successfully built. (44:51)
  • You need to realize the time that is needed to keep the commitment to Membership sites. (45:27)
  • Self-awareness helps you find what you enjoy doing.  To monetize your business you need to understand what works for you. (47:45)
  • Look at content outside of your space to get ideas. (49:56)

Episode Resources:
Beaver Builder
Grin Graphics
Code Canyon
Kyle Gray
Virtual Summit Mastery
Gary Vee
Click Funnels
Ryan Holiday

To Stay in Touch with Kim:
The WordPress Chick
Kim Doyal
Kim on Twitter
Lead Surveys
Content Creators Facebook page

To stay connected with the Matt Report, head on over to the

If you like the show, please leave a 5 Star review over on the Matt Report on iTunes.

Be sure to check out Matt’s new offering at It is like having a co-founder for $59.00.



5 responses to “How to readjust when you’re sick of the same old thing”

  1. What a fun episode, thanks again for the opportunity Matt!
    Nothing like listening to yourself… must work on removing a few phrases from my vocabulary. 😉

  2. Good interview, but I’m going to take a contrarian stance here. I believe it’s not in your best interest (or the client’s) to do work, especially marketing work, for free. Even if you get a case study. Even if you get a testimonial.

    The reason I say this is there are a ton of things in online marketing that require funds to do the work. Creating content, running Facebook ads, outsourcing graphic design or content creation, paying for plugins, just to name a few.

    If you’re willing to pay for three months of this out of your own pocket, more power to you. But usually the type of clients that won’t pay for this kind of work are not the kind of clients you’re trying to attract anyway. By basing your case study off of a client that you’re pitching free work to, you’re going to attract more of that type of business (usually very small businesses).

    In my experience, clients who get work at a free or deeply discounted price will only refer similar prospects to you. And similarly, clients that you charge a sustainable rate to will refer you to prospects that have healthy businesses and can afford to pay that rate.

    If you need experience, please charge something, and raise your rates as you get more case studies in your portfolio, or you feel more confident charging a sustainable rate. Giving people things for free doesn’t lead to better work. Trust me on this.

    Feel free to flame me in the comments if you disagree, and think I’m barking up the wrong tree.

    1. Yes John I totally agree with your comments the only additional thing I would say is that if you need a good case study quickly is trying to do some work for a non-profit on the understanding that they will be available and willing to give you great testimonial.

      1. Great point, Jonathan. But even non-profits have a budget. What I’ve seen from watching my husband as we’ve run our business over the last six years is that the clients that are the lowest paying are usually the most demanding, and usually have the least respect for the value we add to their business. As we’ve evolved our own business, we’ve tried to stay true to our integrity, and do what what we say we are going to do. As a result, we’ve been able to get dozens of positive reviews, and many referrals for clients. And as John said, the clients that pay our current rates refer more clients that pay our current rates. The old clients that we’ve raised rates on, we’ve either referred to other developers who work at that lower price, or they’ve agreed to keep working with us. The only time we’ve not been able to get a case study is when John was subcontracting to other agencies, which is a large part of why he stopped doing that. Speaking as the wife of someone who is running their own business, working for free is only possible if you have a hobby business, or if you don’t need the money. Working for free is a good way to have to go look for a day job, and that’s not what we’re trying to do.

  3. That’s helpful. I like to read!!

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